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Parking lot

The Gazebo's parking for motorcycles and cars could move across Lago Drive to this grassy area, which isn't as visible to people coming through the North Gate.

[Updated July 31] Looking ahead to 2016’s budget, the Rancho Murieta Association board of directors Wednesday night discussed building a new motorcycle parking lot, the need to re-sod the sports fields at Stonehouse Park and concrete work all over the community.

General Manager Greg Vorster offered the board five possible projects for 2016.

The board instructed him to insert them all into the first draft of 2016’s budget, which the board will see in the coming weeks.  The projects are still tentative and can be removed if the board desires, Vorster said.

Here are 2016’s proposed projects.

North Gazebo: Build a new motorcycle parking area. Develop a master plan for Gazebo area. Install security cameras.

“There has been quite a bit of dialogue about wanting to do a new Gazebo park,” Vorster said.
“And the first step of redoing that park would be to get the motorcycles out of that area.”

He showed a layout of a new parking lot on grassy land across Lago Drive from the present Gazebo parking lot.  He said the lot would accommodate 24 motorcycles and 16 cars. Natural berms in the area would screen the lot from Jackson Road and Murieta Parkway, he said.

One tree might be lost, Vorster said – or maybe it could be saved.

Director Tim Maybee suggested there could be a covered structure, and he agreed with the comment that a cover could come later. “I just don’t want to take the problem and now we’re just moving it across the street,” he said.

The cost Vorster offered was $57,750 for asphalt, curbing and striping. Lighting could be added for another $3,500, he said.

As for security cameras on the new lot, Vorster said Gazebo security cameras were installed for less than $5,000 as part of this year’s North Gate work.

Cameras are a part of three other parks projects proposed for 2016.

Vorster said the RMA set aside $24,000 last year and will set aside another $24,000 this year for cameras. With that money in hand, and the experience of buying the Gazebo cameras, Vorster said there should be enough money to get the cameras purchased and installed, so the $24,000 set-aside can be removed from next year’s budget.

When asked whether the new camera feeds could be monitored by the Community Services District’s Security department – which is developing its own plan for cameras – Vorster said Security at the North Gate is able to monitor the Gazebo feed now, either live or on a recording.

“I would think all the systems should have a feed to the (North Gate),” Vorster said in response to a question. “For two reasons. One, we’ve got a (digital video recorder) there that’s capable of recording for all of our cameras. That’s a good, secure location for the DVR to be at. And number two, I think it reduces the load on CSD Security to be able to monitor those cameras. I think it saves them man-hours not having to run out to the park sites as frequently.”

Right now, Vorster said the recordings go back 30 to 45 days. When all the cameras are in place, the archive could be cut to 15 days and still meet everyone’s needs, he said.

As for a new master plan for the Gazebo area, Vorster said the initial thought is to get rid of the concrete and asphalt. “Your focal point as you come through (the gate) is that Gazebo area,” Vorster said. “People don’t want to see motorcycles; they’d rather see more of a park-like setting.”

Stonehouse Park: Re-sod sports fields. Install cameras.

Re-sodding the sports fields at Stonehouse Park with hybrid bermuda grass would cost $16,000 an acre, Vorster said. He said the community’s Little League and soccer organizations are “more than willing to let us take fields out of play for a year in order to re-sod them and to get a better grass in there.”

The directors talked about doing the re-sodding in stages, so some fields would always be available for play.

When one director said the fields look great now, Vorster said, “If you go out there and walk them, you’ll see they don’t look too great.” Others said the fields are bumpy.

Vorster said the bermuda grass requires only one-quarter of the water needed by the grasses on the fields now.  Still, Vorster said, “This is kind of a tricky goal. If we don’t have water next year, we can’t plan anything.”

In the end, Vorster said he would put $48,000 into the budget for the turf project.

North and South: Replace damaged curbing and sidewalks. Replace old landscaping.

Vorster proposed spending $20,000 on curbs and sidewalks and $15,000 on landscaping, doubling the amount already planned on landscaping in 2016’s operational budget and increasing the curbs/sidewalk spending from $12,000 to $32,000. When asked where the curb and sidewalk problems are, Vorster said, “We’ve got it everywhere.” He showed photos to illustrate the problem.

Riverview Park: Enclose spray park equipment. Install a camera system.

Vorster said a block wall and wrought-iron gate should be built to replace the chain-link fence that now protects the systems at the spray park. The $10,000 cost would be funded with exclusive-use fees, he said. The cameras, estimated at $10,000, would be funded by the money already set aside.

Lake Clementia: Relocate old playground equipment. Install a camera system.

Vorster said exclusive-use fees would be used for $6,000 to fund this project, a relocation of the old playground equipment removed two years ago from Riverview Park. Again, the cameras would be funded from money set aside already.

In addition to Vorster’s list, directors had some suggestions of their own.

Martin Pohll said the road to Lake Clementia needs repaving, and Vorster said it’s possible this year’s planned repaving work, and money for additional paving projects, may make it possible to address the potholes. Jim Moore said the RMA needs to come up with a plan for the amenities that can be offered at Clementia. Sam Somers Sr. suggested a flagpole and U.S. flag be added to the front of the North Gate.

Among 2015’s board goals, Vorster pointed out the new North Gate, a floating dock on Laguna Joaquin, four dozen Stonehouse Park shade trees and Guadalupe landscaping have been completed. He said other 2015 goals that are expected to be completed this fall are additional shade trees at Lake Clementia and a Frisbee golf park on the South.

Jan Kays's picture
Joined: 05/06/2008
Posts: 115
Post rating: 111


i don't know much about all these things, but they all seem reasonable and look good to me.....especially about the new parking for motorcycles

Mac Hamel's picture
Joined: 08/27/2007
Posts: 127
Post rating: 264

Let Them Go Home!!

How about we let the motorcyclists drive home and we save ourselves an eyesore and $60,000.

RM.com's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007
Posts: 27726
Post rating: 1387

Comments from Facebook...

Some comments from RanchoMurieta.com's Facebook page:

Justin Hayduk They should be pondering a Community pool- not money spent on a parking lot!

Laura Glaser It makes more sense to have the parking lot adjacent to the park not across the street from it. The grassy lot looks like a great location for the new community pool. The clean and shiny motorcycles add class to the outdated gazebo area.

Jacque Villa How about cleaning up the crappy common ground behind my house....it not only looks bad but it's a FIRE HAZARD!!!!! Guess I will have to call the fire department about it!!!!!!!

Myrna Solomon I am surprised that during this draught, resodding would be considered at all. Maybe the fields aren't perfect, but considering the lack of water and how most people here are watching their landscaping suffer, the sports fields are good enough for now. Greg and the directors must be living in a bubble..

Beth Buderus's picture
Joined: 08/03/2007
Posts: 926
Post rating: 706


Mac, the only problem I have with it is...will the adults keep their motorcycles under lock and key away from teens who could sneak them out?  Oh of course the parents will just keep saying...not my kid...not my motorcycle.... 

Or the teens who are old enough to drive and buy their own...Security can't catch them already under the current conditions, golf cart, foot and bicycle. 

Martha Glunt's picture
Joined: 07/29/2007
Posts: 192
Post rating: 421

Motorcycles on the south...

Beth, your worries, above, have not happened, far as I know, in the 17yrs we've lived on the South.  I say let the motorcycles either go home.


William Murphy's picture
Joined: 03/04/2015
Posts: 18
Post rating: 24

Motorcycle Parking Lot

Motorcycles, save the money and let them be ridden home. Minimal if non-existant complaints from the South shows without question, that it is possible with proper guidelines.

Spend the money towards a pool and more landscaping.

Regarding the fields, water shouldn't be an issue as we are watering the existing fields with reclaimed water, correct?  If not, that should be a priority above all else.

Bill Murphy

Myrna Solomon's picture
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 427
Post rating: 745

I totally agree Beth

My husband and I have seen teens driving really fast around lake Chesbro in their cars and their parents golf carts, so why wouldn't you think their parents wouldn't buy them dirt bikes to drive all over the same places they already go now. I see tire tracks going down the hills around Lake Clementia, and Calero now, which worries me considering this is how fires have started in the mountains. I have heard that when security catches teens doing anything wrong, many know that their parents will back them up, and so they basically blow off security...and continue to do whatever they want to do. 

I will remind those who want motorcycles to be allowed on the north again, when you moved here, this was the rule, and in fact within the last few years, was voted down again...so whether you like it or not, you had the choice to move here, or move somewhere else where motocycles were allowed. There are a couple of rules I don't like, but the reason I love living here is that I love the majority of the rules, and am glad the majoroity of people abide by them. Sadly, there are always some people who believe that they are entitled to do whatever they want, that rules don't pertain to them. They are teaching their children to do the samething...

Myrna Solomon

Britt Forman's picture
Joined: 04/24/2009
Posts: 42
Post rating: 13

Let them take their

Let them take their motorcycles home. Why boost our homeowner expenses because a few people don't like motorcycles. Unbelievable. 

Bobbi Belton's picture
Joined: 07/30/2007
Posts: 275
Post rating: 442



I'm with Martha on this one. We have lived in the South over 24 years. Only hear one cycle if bedroom windows are open, right around 6 a.m. More importantly, rarely, if ever see them. They have been considerate neighbors and am sure they would behave similarly on the North. Everyone talks about the "changing demographics." If that is so, let's reconsider, although statistics show many older folks are motorcycle riders as well.

Bobbi Belton

Bill McCarver's picture
Joined: 08/19/2007
Posts: 67
Post rating: 107

Motorcycles on the North

Yeah, lets spend $60,000 on a new motorcycle parking area!!!!!  We have louder cars on the north than the motorcycles.  Let's get out of the stone age and get real!!

Bill McCarver

Jacque Villa's picture
Joined: 07/11/2009
Posts: 539
Post rating: 701


I have to agree that spending $60k to park the cycles across the street from the Gazebo is a major foolish expenditure of "our" money!!!!!  Let the owners take them home and make a rule that they can only ride them out of the gate and back in to their homes when they return......how hard is that!!!!! 

Bill Hawkins's picture
Joined: 08/08/2007
Posts: 63
Post rating: 20

Motorcycle rules

Just an observation for the non-motorcylce owners who make the observation that the rules have not changed.  This is not entirely correct. 

It is absolutely true that the CC&R's have been this way for a long time, but when I moved here, CSD would provide a reasonable (but unspecified) number of escorts in and out. 

About 11 years ago, they changed their rules, so that you only get 2 escorts a year - 1 in and 1 out.  As I recall, one motorcycle owner wanted an escort in and out every day, and at the next CSD meeting, they adopted the one in/one out rule.

RM.com's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007
Posts: 27726
Post rating: 1387

Change in concrete spending

RMA General Manager Greg Vorster has corrected comments he made at the meeting about the amount already budgeted for curbs and sidewalk work. Instead of $20,000 already budgeted, the amount should have been $12,000, he said. The story change is indicated in red.

Janice Okunami's picture
Joined: 02/24/2009
Posts: 33
Post rating: 34


I also agree that the owners of the motorcycles should be allowed to ride them home too.  

Janice Okunami

Janice Okunami's picture
Joined: 02/24/2009
Posts: 33
Post rating: 34


I also agree that the owners of the motorcycles should be allowed to ride them home too.  

Janice Okunami

Alan Stephens's picture
Joined: 07/18/2009
Posts: 4
Post rating: 0


The community voted down motorcycles on the north a few years ago.  Lets not go through it again.


Bill Gengler's picture
Joined: 06/26/2008
Posts: 99
Post rating: 167


What is wrong with the current rules and the current parking lot?  Would we dirt over the current concrete lot and plant a million more plants there to balance those that have already been planted near the GATES at a cost of thousands? Like the swimming pool comments. And...


William Gengler


David Houdeshell's picture
Joined: 04/21/2008
Posts: 42
Post rating: 36

Let them have their babies where they belong, in their garages!

Why not beautify what we already have in existance?  There is a dirt path that runs from the Riverview Park to Karsten Court/Drive on the South.  How about we pave that or lay decomposed granite for the many residents who walk, ride, and cart path to get back and forth to the River Parkway? Not to mention the Greenskeepers who travel this path constantly.  You already have much of the material there as there are approximately 35 large dumps of brocken asphalt and tar, in this location presently, of which have been there perhaps since the tennis court redo?  A complete eyesore.  However, it is a continuous dumping ground for all sorts of dirt projects.  The dirt and dust for those of us on the 8th and 9th in the South have a constant issue.  We are cognicent of the drought status and struggle to maintain our backyard living space. It could be yet another beautiful trail through the gorgeous open space accessing yet another trail.

Debbie Houdeshell

Blake Carmichael's picture
Joined: 07/30/2007
Posts: 278
Post rating: 434

Motorcycles and New Association(s)

When the new HOAs are in place (which won't have restrictions on motorcycles) how could you look an RMA member straight in the face and tell them they can't ride their bikes on the roads without an escort?

Sure, there was a rule in place when people bought here...but at that time, there were not a bunch of new HOAs on the immediate horizon.

Given the changing nature of the HOA constellation behind the gates, it's time to let street bikes get home on their own.

Waiting much longer will be a mess...Being proactive on this will help save the unneccesarry expense of a bike lot, and we can re-allocate those funds (or save them).  We may even reduce the belly aching on both sides.

As an aside, I think the concern about dirtbikes on the back lake trails is legitimate...seems that RMA and CSD could come up with a distinction that makes sense, and put that concern at ease.

Myrna Solomon's picture
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 427
Post rating: 745

Whether the CCR'S on homes will be different...

The homeowners will still have to abide by our CCR'S because they will be driving on our streets, etc. They will have to pay RMA dues..guaranteed! So check with RMA on your comment Blake..

Myrna Solomon

Blake Carmichael's picture
Joined: 07/30/2007
Posts: 278
Post rating: 434

New HOAs and bikes

True enough the new HOA residents will have equal access to the roads and parks currently part of RMA, so they will be contributing funds to RMA for the parks and roads.

But I seem to recall that there was some language about the new HOA adopting RMA rules for road use, "to the extent feasible" (or something like that)...years back there was debate about how much that opened the door for tinkering by the new HOA (including motorcycles on roads to their homes).

Agreed, someone at RMA, or anyone that negotiated the MBA, is likely in a better place to give assurances one way or the other. So if it is guaranteed that the new HOA has to adopt the "no motorcycles rule" the point is moot (for now...but will be debated again, and again, and again).

Regardless of how that all works out, I'm not sure spending 60K to move cars/bikes across the street is a wise investment.



T. Hanson's picture
Joined: 08/07/2007
Posts: 318
Post rating: 474

Blake, BoD, MBA and motorcycles

Blake, your bent kinda" reminds me of Pelosi saying "we gotta' pass this sucker (obamacare), so we know what's in it. You as RMA Director don't know what was in the passed MBA? You're kidding, right? That notorious document specifies that the new HOA's will abide by all CCR's of RMA, except...and this is the show stopper exception...can build tract/non-conforming homes homes in North Murieta, because they can on the cheap for their own profit. And those Directors bought into that subterfuge, with wimpy "they had a gun to our heads" mentality. Bob Cassano, the PTF developer agent ATT, rest his soul, was a stickler on all other CCR provisions, most notably driveway parking, open garage doors, and...no motorcycles. That RMA CCR provision was instituted at Murieta's inception circa 1969 by the developers (read agent Ray Henderson, who also developed Cameron AirPark), because they didn't intend for tract/production homes in their upscale Murieta, and certainly recognized the hazards of off-road trail motorcycles to their investment in this upscale rural community. Mr. Gengler and Ms. Solomon certainly are right in their call for not closing Gazebo parking at the member's considerable expense of relocating across  Lago to that park setting. That's a ridiculous proposition that gains nothing, and all continue to lose. I for one feel that original motorcycle prohibition intent has been misconstrued in subsequent referendums here, and that owners should be allowed transit to/from work and domicile, by whatever conveyance. I doubt that any of the motorcycle owners with their vehicles at the Gazebo are transiting to/from work and residence with off-road low cc bikes. Seems we could so distinguish, and allow satisfaction. BoD, please find a way, without CCR rewrite and referendum.    

RM.com's picture
Joined: 06/19/2007
Posts: 27726
Post rating: 1387

More from Facebook...

The comments about this keep rolling in on Facebook too:

Nina Castro Sherman The Gazebo area looks nice and is not outdated! Unlike the parking storage area, it should never have been put in the front in the first place! Poor planning. Let's not spend money to make another bad plan!
Lack of water...just put in a new entrance, new landscaping and building of new homes. That takes water!

Stefany Alwazani Pooooollllll!

Leon Sanders Ponder this RMA, it's Genius!!!!!
Rather than spend $60,000.00 on a parking lot, remove the liability altogether, and just allow the owners of these motorcycles to ride them home and park them in their own garages. I know, it's brilliant!! This is America!!! I'm more fearful of the way some of these altered golf carts are driven around here than I am of any small addition of noise a motorcycle might add. I live on the south and it's never been an issue. On the other hand though, there has been many a time I've wanted to chase down some of these cart drivers! I do play golf and don't own a motorcycle.

Laura Glaser Thank you, Leon. But, as you are aware, it is illegal to drive motorcycles on the north. To that end, we must have somewhere for the residents who own motorcycles to store them until common sense kicks in. Allowing motorcyclists to use our streets, as per their residential right, is unfortunately, not in our community's CC&Rs. This rule change is not currently up for discussion pending the 60K expenditure.

Leon Sanders A swift kick in the direction of common sense after all, was the intent of my post. Save the 60K and change the rule.

Wyatt Gaylor It would be unfortunate to pave over that patch of grass. Kids use it during baseball season for practice (t-ball) and I think soccer too. I also see people using it to exercise as well. The motorcycles are fine where they are.
Also anyone thinking the ball fields are fine as is have never played on them in that condition. You get more injuries from the lack of padding and the amount of dust/dirt that is kicked up is not enjoyable. Yes we're in a drought but we're not out of water and one of our pride and joys are the quality of our ball fields. People from other communities enjoy coming out and playing in our facility because they're not just huge dust bowls and weeds. If that were to change then we will see a decrease in visiting teams which means more travel and more pollution and less money for our sports (snack bar).

Alicia Correia Having the ugly motorcycle parking lot is a consequence of the membership voting to continue the ban of motorcycles in the North. To have people say it needs to look nicer, well they missed their chance when residents could have voted to change the rules and let people take their motorcycles home. I say keep the lot as a reminder of the people's vote to keep the ban.

Carrie Dodson Man, they are just determined to develop the space that is zoned common area behind my house! First a proposed dog park, now motorcycles....can't we just allow the common areas to remain common??? I chose to purchase my specific home mainly because I liked that my lot is surrounded by open common area. I was not under the impression when I purchased my home that the association was able to develop common areas. If an amendment to the present rules is needed to protect common areas from development by the association, I would be interested in making that happen.

Mac Hamel's picture
Joined: 08/27/2007
Posts: 127
Post rating: 264

Changing Designated Motorcycle Parking Area

According to the CC&R's, the restriction to motorcycles is as written: "...Rancho Murieta North motorcycles may only be operated within the development for ingress and egress to and from the designated motorcycle parking area which is currently located at the Common Area Gazebo."

Can the designated parking area be changed by Board action only?

If it cannot, then wouldn't it require a vote of the membership to change the parking area. 

If it can, then the Board can simply change the language from the "Common Area Gazebo" to "Motorcycle Owner's Place of Residence."




Benjamin Shaw's picture
Joined: 04/30/2011
Posts: 67
Post rating: 59

The times, they are a-changin...

It appears that we are at a crossroads. It would make the most sense to create an all-encompassing set of rules for Old North, New North, and South...but that is logical and involves common sense.

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